on Stoicism: subjective/objective, formal informal, and the obstinate roman compared to the rock star or the slave.

Cato the obstinate=moral courage, as per Ryan Holliday

To this I add Cleanthes and Epictetus=physical courage, the Olympic athlete and the slave.

The Platonic duality: body and soul.  To this we add external things.  Yet others, Neo-Platonists add to layers of the soul.  There is the subjective and the formal, with God being perhaps of the formal, as if looking down upon us from a haze of ivory tower.

In our Christianity, we delve perhaps for a more active God, that the formal universe is more active.  Brother Umbrella, to cover and keep us all in hand, and our own souls, that which makes each of us who we are, not the body but the soul, the subjective and informal.

In the natural world around us, we are the hands of the Messiah's work, and we make the objective or formal come to bear upon an informal world of very real rain showers and spates of hot breeze.

To the Platonic dichotomy we owe some to Lucius Seneca, who had worldly success, even tutored an emperor, and through all his worldly success, he seems to hold that he kept to his Stoic principles: so the good Stoic that has worldly success, almost like the Good Christian, such as the Rich Man and the Eye of the Needle saying, that so many just are not, that the things are or are not mutually exclusive.  Worldly success so much thought the bane of the spiritual disciplines.

And yet.  We have tale after tale of generals, business titans, and various wealthy celebrities, actually practicing the principles in the natural world, and not to their detriment at all.